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 Graeme Noble |
Blue Dragon - Action Showreel (my feature-length) |
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Posts: 4144 (07/08/08 13:23:20) Action Superstar! |
Some highlights of my upcoming feature length, 'Blue Dragon' - the best action hasn't actually been shot, and this month i'm filming some
fights with guys who actually do martial arts (two, maybe three people from this board - you know who you are)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d95MXjZYjbg
Graeme Noble
Kung Fu Hall of Fame |
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darrenh7 |
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Posts: 2583 (07/08/08 14:33:40) Action Hero |
I used some other sounds for blocking than the flash point sounds... they are better for hit sounds. I like that jump side kick shot but a lot of the
choreography is either slow or sloppy in technique. Work on getting a rythum between you and your opponent especially for HK kickboxing rythum is very
important.
DARDREX PRODUCTIONS.
No life! A camera! And High kicks! Kung Fu San So, Shotokan Karate, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, and Jeet Kune Do. http://www.youtube.com/user/dardrex777 |
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 saberdjedi |
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Posts: 2587 (07/08/08 14:40:27) Action Superstar! |
Graeme may I perchance ask why a feature? Why not do short films and gather experience before embarking on something so big. I say this because while I do see
improvement here from your first fight, it's still not up to par. A lot of the takes are just sloppy, with hits that don't line up. Those don't
have anything to do with martial arts ability but rather filmmaking. You have to be demanding on yourself if you want to get a good shot. How many takes are
you averaging per shot?
There's a million things I could say, but I think it'll all be pointless unless you learned them yourself. You should not be satisfied with what you have now, in fact you should be pissed. I think with all you experience with watching HK movies you should be able to make a decent fight right now, but I don't think you're allowing yourself to yet. Like I said, be demanding on yourself. Also, I think you gotta work on the handwork big time before you do a lot of kicks. Right now the kicks are super sloppy and amateurish looking. If you wanna do kicks, I highly suggest mastering the front snap kick first. The key motion of chambering the kick and snapping is essential for later moves like the roundhouse. By the way, who are you working with? I'm assuming sifu, will, and...Brian? Hopefully Brian, because he totally needs to do more fights, and because he's already is good to go himself.
Derek
The Breakfast Machine |
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stuntpeople |
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Posts: 6931 (07/08/08 14:42:02) Administrator |
I agree that aside from some decent kicks, that was very sloppy. Why are you already jumping into a feature length production? Most people have a very hard
time sitting through any feature length movies that feature no production value. Why not spend the effort on improving your short films, and then make the jump
to feature when you have the basics down? I say this because we jumped into a feature (Immortal) on our third year and it's practically worthless and
always has been, at least from a distribution standpoint. And I don't expect to put it online and have people sit through it there.
Eric Jacobus
The Stunt People |
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darrenh7 |
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Posts: 2584 (07/08/08 15:34:11) Action Hero |
Graeme I jumped to a feature after one short... it was a disaster. I always tell any starting filmmaker it's best to do short films until you gain enough
experience to pull off a long story.
DARDREX PRODUCTIONS.
No life! A camera! And High kicks! Kung Fu San So, Shotokan Karate, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, and Jeet Kune Do. http://www.youtube.com/user/dardrex777 |
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Graeme Noble |
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Posts: 4145 (07/08/08 15:36:50) Action Superstar! |
I used some other sounds for blocking than the flash point sounds... they are better for hit sounds. Yeah I agree. Graeme may I perchance ask why a feature? It doesn't do any harm. The main reason is because it was the only way I could get some experience and to actually get people to fight with me. They won't do it just as a short. I'm going to be showing this to some friends etc but I know the standards... You should not be satisfied with what you have now, in fact you should be pissed. I'm satisfied up to a point because I feel i'm going in the right direction (as you pointed out as being an improvement on my last one) but I do know that there are improvements to be made. I'm not naive, and it's a long and big learning process. By the way, who are you working with? I'm assuming sifu, will, and...Brian? Not Brian, but Will is a definite and maybe Sifu. Graeme I jumped to a feature after one short... it was a disaster. I always tell any starting filmmaker it's best to do short films until you gain enough experience to pull off a long story. I'm not actually directing nor writing the feature length as I know nothing about that. I'm just doing the action.
Graeme Noble
Kung Fu Hall of Fame |
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saberdjedi |
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Posts: 2588 (07/08/08 15:41:33) Action Superstar! |
Who is number 3 then?
Derek
The Breakfast Machine |
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Graeme Noble |
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Posts: 4148 (07/08/08 15:44:20) Action Superstar! |
These aren't definites, just Will so far. I'm trying to work with people with experience in martial arts rather than just my
'local mates' number 3 is recklessninja (andy) but like I said, nothing is 100% definite.
Graeme Noble
Kung Fu Hall of Fame |
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AndyLeeAKP |
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Posts: 32 (07/08/08 19:56:23) |
like everyone else has said.
i agree. it looks as if there is no production value at all, and i must agree with eric, who would want to sit through that? You don't seem to have much experience yet. you should really do more short films to gain more experience and learn from your mistakes in every film you make. jumping to a feature length like this is just totally rushing it. not a good idea. As for the show reel, it looks like no one has actually had real martial arts experience. every movement was very slow and sloppy. i suggest you should study more on the reference of screen fighting. study the choreography, study the movements and reactions. every movement, every punch, every kick, every fall, everything needs emotion behind it. there should be a motivation behind every hit. you guys look like you're just doing the hit, but not emotional content, yet the hits are still sloppy. as for the camerawork, it looks really flat, boring and plain. the camerawork should also contribute to the atmosphere. like manny taught devin, and devin taught me, don't throw an angle anywhere just to see the action, you should actually work with the camera to contribute to the significance of the fight. but i guess the flat and loose angles are all of the 80's style HK fights. anyways, i would first suggest to do more shorts for the more experience that you really need. clean up your movements and work a lot more on your screen fighting. |
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Masterkiller67 |
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Posts: 1786 (07/08/08 22:51:30) Action Hero |
Yeahhhhh...with just 2 short films (if they could be called that) under your belt as far as I know of, I think it might be a BIT early for you to try and
tackle a feature. Shit, I've been making movies for 5 years or so and I still don't think I'd consider tackling one of my own for at least another
2 to 4 years.
Edit: Hermmm, looking back on this post, I guess I guess if you aren't the write or the director, this endeavor might be a bit more worthwhile, but are you sure whoever IS directing or writing is up for it? Explain in more detail how exactly you plan for this project to happen, I'm a bit confused.
Last Edited By: Masterkiller67
07/08/08 22:59:17.
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stuntpeople |
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Posts: 6937 (07/08/08 23:00:05) Administrator |
Graeme we assume when you say "my feature length project" you mean the one you're making. But hell if you're working on someone else's
project that should be some good experience.
Eric Jacobus
The Stunt People |
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theportlykicker |
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Posts: 1479 (07/08/08 23:24:01) Action Hero |
By the way, who are you working with? I'm assuming sifu, will, and...Brian? Hopefully Brian, because he totally needs to do more fights, and because he's already is good to go himself.Hey guys, I'd love to help Graeme out and get back into the swing of things, but, as you may have noticed from my absence from the board as of late, I haven't exactly been in a filming frame of mind. I've been dealing with the loss of my mother here in the Philippines recently, but I should be back and kicking in a few months... I hope. Oh, and good luck, Graeme. |
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saberdjedi |
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Posts: 2589 (07/08/08 23:45:19) Action Superstar! |
Aw man, I didn't know Brian. My condolences. Would be great to have to back "kicking" as you said.
Derek
The Breakfast Machine |
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jwnDirector1 |
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Posts: 1 (07/09/08 03:45:39) |
I thought I'd reply to this thread as I am the writer / director of the feature length. I'm going to respond to some of these criticisms shortly, but
first I want to talk about the writing and directing of the film...
To my knowledge, only Eric has created a feature length (Contour) that is considered credible? And immediately that makes me question why there are so many people giving such 'detail opinion' to this thread. Surely 'movie making' should only be criticised by people that have and can actually do this? Anyway, regarding the script writing, it is very simple. I created a script based on who was available and when, with a basic film outline. Pardon my arrogance, but it has taken a genius to get a script that flows as ours does on that basis, and yet it flows. The beauty of that comment is that nobody can 'criticise for criticise sake' because you don't know what the script entails. I watched Contour and thought it was well produced and the action was very impressive, but the storyline wasn't good. I don't like to criticise for the sake of it, but I know what makes a good film. Granted, my fight choreography knowledge is small, but I know about script writing and directing. A film that works well is one that is fast paced and keeps the audience in suspense. The action contributes to that, but I am puzzled - how can anyone say 'who would want to watch that?' based on short clips from some fight scenes that only lasts 30 seconds? That is both arrogant and offensive. Nevertheless, setting that aside - your main problem seems to be the production, or lack of it? Well we have no budget! And I can assure you, as I presume most of you are American (sorry to stereotype) that the blockbusters you see in the cinema with their 10/10 production do not make or break a good movie! When I see the big explosions and the big name actors over-acting I do not think 'WOW! What a production!' I think, 'Dross!' I think that this film, considering it has no budget, is very impressive. Now even if we are making a mistake and even if we should do more shorts first, so what!? We actually have the bottle to do this! We have willing actors, we have someone that is best in the amateur business at fight choreography (Graeme) and I have handled the writing and direction. It has been a good mix and this film WILL be made. I am sure we will learn from mistakes, but making a feature length is one of the best ways to do that. Also, making a feature length takes, as I have said, 'bottle!' If you've been making shorts for five years and are too scared to enter the lake with the big fish then I suggest you get yourself a bigger appetite. I highly doubt that some of the old school Kung classics in Hong Kong are 10/10 for production. Nevertheless, the true Kung fans like them. Although the fighting in our film doesn't have many people trained in Kung, the fight choreographer surpasses anyone on this forum (with the exception of one or two at most). When Graeme created Kung Exchange he knew very little about editing and scenes flowing, issues that have been rectified. Now you focus on bad production? Well if that is your main gripe then I take this thread as 'positive criticism' as I see people 'criticising for criticise sake'. If you really want to see a top production then go to the cinema and you may still catch 'The Incredible Hulk'. What a blockbuster! |
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Graeme Noble |
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Posts: 4149 (07/09/08 03:45:42) Action Superstar! |
who would want to sit through that? I know a lot of people who can't wait for this film. And there is even a few on youtube (people I don't know) that think this is excellent work. I'm not saying that it is excellent, but some of it is decent and I can improve and work hard at it. Edit: Hermmm, looking back on this post, I guess I guess if you aren't the write or the director, this endeavor might be a bit more worthwhile, but are you sure whoever IS directing or writing is up for it? Explain in more detail how exactly you plan for this project to happen, I'm a bit confused. Yeah he most certainly is. He isn't a Kung guy but he rates me highly as an action director and editor (don't laugh  ) but we've already shot 60%
of it, so it won't be stopped now and i'll just continue to do my best with the choreography and try and make it less sloppy. This won't do any
harm to me by completing this one. Also, I don't expect this movie to be distributed worldwide or anything, but it's a good starting point and good
memories, and hell it's fun!
Graeme we assume when you say "my feature length project" you mean the one you're making. But hell if you're working on someone else's project that should be some good experience. Yeah it is, and despite the severe criticism I do feel i've improved a lot. I am the best fighter in the movie thus far and I know I ain't great but having the opportunity to work with people better than me is good!
Graeme Noble
Kung Fu Hall of Fame
Last Edited By: Graeme Noble
07/09/08 04:01:02.
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stuntpeople |
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Posts: 6938 (07/09/08 06:11:25) Administrator |
"To my knowledge, only Eric has created a feature length (Contour) that is considered credible?"
Apparently you don't want my (or anyone's) advice and that's fine. Best of luck to you.
Eric Jacobus
The Stunt People |
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maxxyconan |
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Posts: 8 (07/09/08 06:51:29) |
when i saw it, some parts were decent but sloppy. But i had the same problem when i did stuff earlier, so its not such a overbearing problem. During the scene
where the guy was pounding the guy in the sand, i would have hand him in a mount. Look at some footage of some people who do ground and pound. Also watch where
your hands are when kicking. i know sometimes kickers swing them out for balance, but i suggest you keep them in. Good luck with the project anyway.
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Masterkiller67 |
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Posts: 1787 (07/09/08 06:57:25) Action Hero |
60%!?!?! 0_0. By feature, you mean a standard hour and a half longish movie, right? Edit: Oh yeah, I just read your post Brian. I am really sorry to hear about
what happened. We'll definitely be looking forward to seeing more from you in the future though, should you ever take filming back up again.
Last Edited By: Masterkiller67
07/09/08 07:15:08.
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jwnDirector1 |
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Posts: 2 (07/09/08 07:04:09) |
stuntpeople wrote: Thanks, but that is not what I've said. What I have read has not really been advice, except that we shouldn't be doing it. If you are going to give 'advice' as you put it then surely it should be advice about 'movie making' instead of criticising a brief clip or a series of fights of clips? Basically you cannot tell whether it is a good or bad movie on the basis of that clip - though you can criticise the production which is perfectly fair and perhaps some of the figthing. But seriously, you guys have no idea who is involved and how good we are at what we are doing. Personally, I welcome advice. However, reading people write inappropriate and unnecessary criticism, some of whom have created shorts that are simply embarassing, is not helpful. |
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Masterkiller67 |
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Posts: 1788 (07/09/08 07:28:05) Action Hero |
Sorry Jwn, I'll admit that I misunderstood Graeme at the start, but frankly, you are being a little bit pompous and excessively caustic. As a matter of
fact, every member who has posted on this thread thus far is a fellow filmmaker who makes or has made amatuer films with no budget. We aren't just a hive
full of dicks that like to complain about stuff. I attribute my growth as a student filmmaker to the Stuntpeople's web site and filmmakers I have met and
learned from on or through this message board, and in the process, I have had to stomach countless criticisms. Now, after many years of working to polish up my
filmmaking technique, I have come to realize that the criticism this board has to offer is one of the most valuable assets a filmmaker can have, and I
personally feel very lucky to have discovered it. You can take it or leave it.
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stuntpeople |
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Posts: 6939 (07/09/08 08:15:58) Administrator |
"What I have read has not really been advice, except that we shouldn't be doing it. If you are going to give 'advice' as you put it then
surely it should be advice about 'movie making' instead of criticising a brief clip or a series of fights of clips?"
How were we supposed to know that the clip wasn't a representation of what the film would look like? If you want filmmaking advice, just listen to what we're saying. "However, reading people write inappropriate and unnecessary criticism, some of whom have created shorts that are simply embarassing, is not helpful." Who cares what they've done? Graeme critisized the FUCK out of Contour and he's only made a few shorts, and I took everything he said to heart. Even people on here who have never touched a camera can have an opinion, honest ones at that. Eat it up, unless you just want praise.
Eric Jacobus
The Stunt People
Last Edited By: stuntpeople
07/09/08 08:19:00.
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