Need Help from Fight choreographers!! The more, the better!

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songchao	Need Help from Fight choreographers!! The more, the better!	Lead	[-]
Posts: 5 (06/20/08 18:00:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : chao, help Hey guys! how are you all? I've choreographed a few fight scenes and find it to be very fun. I run into a problem, however, when it comes to organization! I need help! I'd appreciate different advice from as many people (that know what they are talking about) as possible! When choreographing a fight in a note book, how do you organize it? I use the left side for pictures of the actions, and describe action + reaction on the right. For the graphics i use stick figures. My problem is that it's hard to show complex action (especially with two people) using stick figures. Since (unless u use 2 pens) the lines get all mixed up. Can you suggest a better graphic style, or a totally different method of recording my ideas plz? I want something simple. I tend to get ideas i like randomly and they will disappear as quickly as they come. So i am not able to use alot of detail (i am not interested in drawing comics). I hope i was able to explain my problem clearly and hope to hear from you all soon! Thanks again! Last Edited By: songchao 06/20/08 18:25:52. Edited 1 time.
RobP		#1	[-]
Posts: 268 (06/24/08 06:35:19) Extra Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	No pictures for me. I can draw alright but it's too time consuming. Generally when I choreograph something alone I'll shadow fight both sides of the fight in my garage and write down the moves with my common names for techniques. If there's a complex move I can't name easily I just describe it the best I can and usually that works. If I've been thinking about the move that much then whatever description I give it will jog my memory. As for the organisation and reactions etc... well, I'll write out each exchange/shot on a seperate 2 line section. At the start of both lines is the names of each fighter involved and then moving from left to right on the page is the exact move they will be doing with the other person's reaction above or below it... Example: Rob: Spin kick Double Jab + Cross Fade back HIT Torin: Duck Dodge all Hook punch Back kick Here I describe a sequence where I do a spin kick followed by 2 jabs and a cross. Torin will duck the kick and dodge all 3 punches then return with his own hook punch which I fade back from. Torin finishes with a back kick which hits me and I react to. Exact movement and reaction will be figured out while filming. If you're choreographing with someone else it's best just to have a camcorder ready and take a video record. Man On A Mission Films If you work for a living why kill yourself working?
darrenh7		#2	[-]
Posts: 2509 (06/24/08 11:35:29) Action Hero Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't really plan choreography. I've always found it easier to choreograph on set where I can take other people's suggestions, know whether they can do the moves I'm telling them or decide to re-choreograph, not to mention once I write the moves down the execution always seems awkward. DARDREX PRODUCTIONS. No life! A camera! And High kicks! Kung Fu San So, Shotokan Karate, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, and Jeet Kune Do. http://www.youtube.com/user/dardrex777
micah9		#3	[-]
Posts: 964 (06/24/08 22:02:07) Screen Fighter Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	if you've got a partner in crime, a camcorder and tripod, and a laptop, you can film a rough sequence as you come up with it, basically in-camera editing (or edit later) and bring the laptop to set to see the choreo plans
paul51484		#4	[-]
Posts: 2434 (06/25/08 04:26:28) Action Hero Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	if you've got a partner in crime, a camcorder and tripod, and a laptop, you can film a rough sequence as you come up with it, basically in-camera editing (or edit later) and bring the laptop to set to see the choreo plans That's an excellent idea. Famous choreographers do it & sometimes they also do it to audition for choreography jobs. For example: Serenity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt9F2iyJLCw Ong Bak http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhRb62Kbk8o Chocolate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwxiMBMmBOM&feature=related
songchao		#5	[-]
Posts: 6 (06/25/08 08:48:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	ty for all the advice. ^_^ I do appreciate it. I already knew about recording it though. This was for when i'm sitting in class/ work/ somewhere i can't physically do the moves and record them and also don't have someone there. hence the notebook. Again thanks, but please i need more notebook organization ideas! ^^
micah9		#6	[-]
Posts: 967 (06/25/08 14:26:10) Screen Fighter Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	everyone's brain works different. some people very familiar with moves and can visualize them well can just write down the moves and counters. I do better visually so finding a style of illustration that is simple/fast but clear helps me. I prefer drawing the action within a frame (whatever aspect ratio I wish to shoot in). This gets me thinking on a bigger and more creative level than simply choreographing unframed figures. It also makes more sense to the rest of the crew. i'm ok at drawing for reference though I'm not good at trying to illustrate on a three dimensional perspective - so sometimes i would draw an overhead schematic of the fighters and environment side-by-side with the storyboard frame. I really think more about important frames, like the frame composition at the beginning and end of a technique. this requires a couple things: knowledge of how all the moves look anatomically visually (easier for strikes than complex joint-locks), and knowledge of what angles sell the impact. Other than that it's just an opportunity to play with creative composition in frame. i think a lot of people on the board are accustomed to making up a lot of specifics on the spot, but ahead of time might think more about getting into and out of a fight, and the general pacing (who's got the advantage and when). As well as some key shots - cool unique shots that are highlights of the fight. Last Edited By: micah9 06/25/08 14:43:02. Edited 1 times.
saberdjedi		#7	[-]
Posts: 2568 (06/26/08 11:27:29) Action Superstar! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	A lot of us come up with choreo on the spot as Micah mentioned, but a lot of us also have done pre choreographed stuff before. For Manny's noir project, he had certain fights completely written out in long hand, and we just performed it on the spot. There's no correct method of doing this, and I generally think you should only do it if you don't have time to think out elaborate choreo on the spot. You can also do both, like have certain parts written out and make up "filler" shots on the spot. Derek The Breakfast Machine
Rising Tiger		#8	[-]
Posts: 381 (06/26/08 13:25:30) Fall Guy Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Sometimes I write out choreography, and it's usually not much more than: Lester - right jab, left cross, right hook MISS Ed - right backfist/jab, right front kick, left cross HIT But a lot of times (just recently for example), I find that when I'm out shooting the scene and I pull out my notebook where the choreography was written down, I completely forget what it was supposed to look like. So usually in that situation we just come up with things on the spot. However, there are a lot of times when I have a definite sequence or sense of rhythm that I'm really trying to achieve, and usually that'll stick in my head.
Leo		#9	[-]
Posts: 262 (06/27/08 14:01:43) Extra Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I write down specific descriptions of a fight as if I'm writing for a novel. Then I make a shot list of it (aforemetioned choreography descriptions on one side to camera notes on the other side to dictate how I plan to shoot the action) Then I try to storyboard it. But since I usually can't draw, this usually fails. Then I shoot practice/blocking versions of the fights. Though, I only go through this much effort if it's for a big/serious project. For every day fun I just come up with stuff on the spot with other people. I'm also always inspired by other movies, so I'll try to recreate or incorporate moves and stuff and come up with names for specific unique shots that are inspired by other movies, usually having weird names like "Flashpoint slide" or "Brotherhood of the Wolf leg hook to neck takedown" or "Jackie Chan's Myth pole running through guy attack", etc... Obviously my notes only make sense to me. But they make extremely clear sense, that I remember everytime. So I suppose that's good.
stuntpeople		#10	[-]
Posts: 6897 (06/27/08 16:43:49) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The thing that works best for me is if I take notes while I shoot. I rarely do this, but it keeps me on track, and helps me remember what happened in previous shots so I can make the whole thing connect. I also hate planning fight scenes. I'm so used to having it come off the top of my head that planning is sometimes more time consuming, and usually doesn't result in anything too interesting. Eric Jacobus The Stunt People
Graeme Noble		#11	[-]
Posts: 4082 (06/28/08 08:41:44) Action Superstar! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have a rough plan written down, but most of it is when shooting and comes from my vast HK film knowledge Graeme Noble Kung Fu Hall of Fame

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Need Help from Fight choreographers!! The more, the better!

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